VERDICT: Kanouté fined €3000
By: Anthony | January 9th, 2009
Everyone knows the old proverb “a picture says a thousand words”, but who knew one word could say a thousand words?
Before I start here I just want all readers (because some have got quite hostile on another post regarding the same issue) to know that I am totally neutral in this situation and I would like to get other peoples opinions from the lovely world of football. I like to see what other people feel regarding controversial situations like these and compare my opinion to theirs.
Just for the record, I am neither Muslim nor Jewish, nor am I affiliated with Israel or Palestine in anyway, I just want to play devil’s advocate here.
Anyway to the important stuff. Today it was officially announced by the Spanish Competition Committee that Big Fredi would be charged a total of €3000 for his political display against Deportivo la Coruña last Wednesday in the Copa del Rey. It was said that it violates article 120 which states “revealing messages of a religious or political nature on the pitch is strictly prohibited during the time of play”.
What’s funny is that the Israeli ambassador to Spain said he saw nothing wrong with what Kanouté did and that it did not “incite violence”, also of course Fredi received much praise from many Muslims throughout Spain and the world and of course the Palestinian ambassador to Spain (never knew there was one to be honest).
Does everyone in the world really need to loosen up and relax because this all does seem a bit harsh… Then again, politics and football don’t mix (well shouldn’t) and I hate to see the beautiful game ruined by stupid ideologies. Players should know better, he was on the field of play and when you are you must abide by certain rules, it’s no different than when you’re at someone’s house, at the mall, wherever you may be, there are always rules and laws to obey.
I’d love to hear everyone’s thoughts on this, no matter what team you support, this is a serious issue affecting our league. Comment away.
P.S. At least us Sevillistas can look at the bright side and say he didn’t get suspended which is good because with this serious goal drought that’s the last thing we need!!!
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Hi. I just want to remind people here that Kanoute and every other football player out there do NOT have free speech rights when they are on the field.
Let’s get this right here. When you are in public property, you have free speech. The government, who belongs to the public, cannot prevent you from using your free speech rights to say whatever it is that you want to say. (Unless it incites violence)
A private company, like FIFA or Sevilla, CAN take away your free speech as long as you are working for them. In my house, I can take away your free speech because it is MY property, and not yours. I can take away a Madridista’s free speech by kicking them out of my house and preventing them from exercising their free speech within my property.
When you work for a corporation, they can take away your free speech and they often do. Telemarketers have NO free speech. Would a telemarketer get the boot if, instead of trying to convince the person on the phone to buy a product, they talked about Palestine and the human rights violations that are taking place there? Absolutely. They would get fired and no matter how much that employee said the words “free speech” the government would NOT do a thing because a person doesn’t have free speech in private property.
Kanoute works for a private company and under the guidelines of another private company. He needs to respect their rules.
Their rules state that he can’t make political statements. He made a political statement. He gets fined.
The same goes for all players. And I agree with this. This is football. Let’s play football and keep out the political and religious statements.
Posted from
United States
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I responded on the “Abuse the position” thing in previous article Anthony made about this subject.
First of all to consider Football as business, and players like employees in that absolute manner is the trend of these days, and its only leading to miss judgments about lot of things including this one.
Football clubs are public property in its roots, I don’t care if Ibramovic bought Chelsea Assets, but if Chelsea fans divorce the team it will collapse -unless if you will consider fans as customers then I have nothing to say about that. comparing football to Microsoft is not Valid, even though its the trend today so it is considered a fact for public opinion the same as “Economic crises” sounded unlikely few months before it happened. I understand the impact of global propaganda so I know I seems to be out of date when I say football will always be a game for people, in the stands Fans voice their opinion against the “CLUB MANAGEMENT” and demand a change there anytime, in the field no club or Fifa can tell a player not to thank his God (no matter who/where is that god) after scoring a goal, do u really know where that is leading?
We are more and more becoming slaves of a systematic mentality that will tell us what to do and how, and this is beyond Kanoute incident.
Israeli ambassador said there is no offense in that action, so there was no case from the start.
now if a player showed a foto of the poverty in Africa, he will get fined? what about the poverty somewhere else? Palestine? no? if thats the kind of football people in rich countries like to see, I reccomend that we have a look what kind of impact football has in the other part of the world. This game must not become another luxury “Golf” sport.
I already mentioned the Catalan Band on Puyol arm, now what will your Fifa do for that?
Posted from
Germany -
Sorry Anthony, I would have loved to do something but my computer was banjaxed and I couldnt get online for a few days. Anyways you’re going down tonight, or so Ive heard
Posted from
Ireland -
The politics are a big part of what I love about football. I’d hate to see that totally banished from the field.
That said, I think that fines are probably a good idea. They’ll discourage players from making egregious political displays.
With those players who aren’t serious discouraged the few statements made will matter more. Players like Kanoute, who obviously really care about the statements they’re making, won’t be deterred by a minor €3000 fine. Which I think is a good thing. If players care enough to say something, let them sacrifice for it.Posted from
United States -
Ramzi, once again, he does not work under a public institution. He works under a bunch of private organizations that ask him to abide by thousands of regulations.. after all, we would not be watching the same football game every week if they did not exist.. and they all tell him what he can and can’t do.
They told him not to make political statements. He made them. They will fine him. He understood this when he signed up for the Primera Division and if he did not want to abide by those rules, he shouldn’t have signed on. Maybe he should go play at the public park with the rest of the kids and he can make his political statements there.
That has always been a part of life, dude. This is nothing new.
Anyway, this “free speech” defense really needs to go away. It’s the most annoying thing in the world when it is used in the wrong context.
Posted from
United States -
Well, because I like the idea of presenting differences as a first Step to manage living with them, instead of burring the right of expressing them, I will agree that we don’t agree (OhYes), I Respect your opinion as a part of freedom of speech whether its a part of “wrong or right context”, I don’t get annoyed by other person opinion, may be thats one of the things I built my opinion on.
We enjoyed expressing ourselves here, and hope we keep doing so for a while till Blog become a “Privet Sector” that require Ties, Shinny shoes, Protocols and prestigious class plus out of “real world” logic. Then we can leave it to those who enjoy living in a Bubble.
After all I am a part of the world, not a hostage of my own room with popcorn in hand. That put more responsibilities on my shoulders that Fake Luxury pampered settings cant fit. If a child head get bombed by a missile, I say my word even if it means I lose my job, but I respect who don’t as much as they respect that I do.
I expressed my opinion and respected yours, nothing more for me to say.
Posted from
Germany -
Every time you see Puyol arm bad remember me, and ask yourself, Do we make the laws to protect the weak or the powerful? who need it more? If we cant apply the law on the most powerful (creating excuses for them) and we only show up with our pomp muscles against the weak, do we really need to be that excited with that kind of treatment.
Ok now i am seriously finished my case
Posted from
Germany -
What really matters is that he agreed not to do those things and he failed to uphold his word.
Posted from
United States -
Anthony, thanks for your comment on my 2010 blog … I’m of the opinion that as an employee of Sevilla FC, he shouldn’t spread political messages on his shirt.
When he put his name on the contract, he became a representative of the club … had he gone out and driven drunk or killed someone, he’d have been fined because the club would see this as a transgression.
I know this pales in comparison … but the fact that he displayed a political message on his shirt (I know it was just a word, but still … we all know it’s not just a word) means he broke the rules.
I still love the lad, however!!Posted from
United States -
May be I dont understand the political message and see it more as a human message which is over any contract. You understood it political, but there are children starving and getting killed there, thats not politics for me.
The same as some Muslims say September 11 is political message for USA for its support.
I think both sides see things the way it suits them.Pst:Y no one is commenting on the Catalan flag on the captain arm band?
Posted from
Germany -
hmm well kaka never got fined for his “revealing messages of a religious or political nature on the pitch” at the champions league final..just wondering, if freddie revealed a shirt that had the word ISRAEL on it, would the reaction still be the same?
Posted from
Germany -
Wow, a lot of stuff here to touch on but I’ll do it briefly seeing as there’s way too many points.
Ramzi, like I said to Tamim, it’s not a black and white issue, its very complicated but like OhYes and I have previously said, Fredi is under contract with Sevilla and therefore he must abide by the rules they enforce, therefore meaning his actions were not right.
About the Catalan flag on Puyol’s arm. What’s wrong with it? I don’t see your reference there. The Sevilla captain’s band use to be the Andalucían flag a few years back and our jerseys also used to say Andalucía on them, does that mean we are posing a national security issue? No, in these situations it is about regional pride. Now an instance we can refer to is last year when Betis fans were waving around Spanish flags from the time of Franco and they were charged, this also appears to have nothing malicious about it but everyone knows it represents Fascism and this always reverts back to Nazi Germany.
There are so many things to think about when situations like these arise, it’s extremely complicated and there are so many viewpoints towards them that they are difficult to solve.
June16 brings up a good point about letting them sacrifice for it. I have the utmost respect for Kanouté and know hes an amazing player as he is a human being but the simple fact of the matter is he stepped out of line here and needs to realize this.
Nada, in response to you I do think that if a player had a shirt that said “Israel” on it that they would get fined, by showing the name of either of these places it may seem harmless but obviously we know the intend behind it.
I really want to thank everyone for their input on this discussion and I’m happy that it was kept civil. It is evident that people’s views will always differ and the environment in which we grew up will reflect and shape this opinion. Thanks again for everything and hope you will pass by the Sevilla Offside again and maybe even leave a comment.
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United States -
Anthony that arm band is the flag of the region that demand independence and to be a country, its the flag of the people who had bloody wars with “Spain” and its wore by the team labeled as Catalonia army.
Palestine: political is a region where people are demanding independence and to have their own country.
Now of course we can always put make ups the way it suit us, but a flag is a more political sign than a name on the TShirt, Catalonia flag is not only a sign of pride, its a political message that “we are a nation and we demand a country”.
And I want to insure I was not defending Kanoute action as a case, but the principle in general, if Beneyoun felt his people in Israel are discriminated based on race, he has the right when he score a goal to pull up his shirt to show a message “we are human as you are!”
I hope you read the last post I posted in the previous article you wrote about the topic, not to respond but to know more about the other opinion, but i respect yours.
It is complicated but I can suggest this for example:
RFEF Announcement regarding Kanoute behavior:“After making contacts with Israeli embassy and Palestinian embassy and investigating the player we reached this conclusion:
The player was not sending a political message through his action but a human call for peace.
Both Israeli and Palestinian embassies insured that they understand that war only bring suffering for people and there is a need to solve this problem sooner than later to stop the cycle of suffering.We decided not to take any actions against the player based on recommendations from the parties targeted by his actions (Israel and Palestine) which kept us in no position to charge offense, but we need to insure we will not allow this to become a habit in the game to protect it from being over used for whats not a part of the sport.
RFEF is welling to receive any complain from any party felt offended by this action and then we have the right to reconsider the actions taken so far.”Then only when someone report being offended by a message made by any player , Fifa or RFEF or any local reference make investigations and take options, or else every player have the right to send messages related to human cases like this one that i insist its more human concern than political.
__________________________________________IMPORTANT LEGAL NOTE
now regarding contracts obligations: There is NO article in any contract that is over the GENERAL LAWs, in a country or on international level, for example two countries cannot make an agreement to transfer people between them by force even though the two countries agree on that, still international laws forbid it, its the same with employment contracts, articles that oppose the country laws are not legal even if you sign under and here I refer you to a case regarding players law that was planned in UEFA, but then the EU rejected to accept it because it oppose the General law that come over the EUFA laws. So the contract is valid as long as it doesn’t oppose a higher level legal obligations, and Human rights agreement come over any law in international regulations, its not me who say so, read the Human rights agreement.
__________________________________But As I mentioned before thats only me who think so.
Posted from
Germany -
UNIVERSAL DECLARATION
OF HUMAN RIGHTSArticle 19
Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers.Posted from
Germany -
Article 30
Nothing in this Declaration may be interpreted as implying for any State, group or person any right to engage in any activity or to perform any act aimed at the destruction of any of the rights and freedoms set forth herein.Posted from
Germany -
To compare the Palestine-Israel with the barca-spain conflict is off target. Of course every region in spain will show pride for their state and individuality, its fine that barca wears the catalan flag, just as any other team. Now when we speak of history, a supposed independence of the catalan region from spain…its clear out that its not a majority that support this cause. Many of those who support Espanyol will feel pride of being a spaniard as well. Even when the regional selections play other countries….the real hardcore pro-independence zealots did not even come close to a third of the total capacity of the camp nou. Im speaking of those that wear catalan flags with stars in it, those we see on tv every now and then….they may be enough to hold a billboard mentioning catalonia is not spain…but then you barely get a decent amount of members that attend the matches. They’re there just to blow some smoke.
If the case were that a majority of citizens view themselves exclusively as catalans, then we would have a more serious confrontation but it doesn’t escalate anymore cause generations go by and the new immigrant citizens do not give a damn. The civil war will be lost in memory at some point…or to a milder vindication.
Posted from
Spain -
Ramzi, I agree with you entirely.
If the Atlanta Hawks captain ever started fragrantly wearing the flag of the state of Georgia, he should be heavily fined. The state of Georgia is a political entity which once betrayed America by declaring independence and becoming part of another country, the Cofederacy. Even today, there are folks who fight for the independence from the north! The Georgia state flag is not only a sign of pride, its a political message that “we are a nation and we demand a country”.
Posted from
Dominican Republic -
We were talking specifically about the flag as a political message, when a barcelona Fc player have it, and you know barcelona Fc history, don’t you?
Barcelona Fc as an institution is a political structure all in all, so lets not circle and cycle around the point.
Anyways, I am supporting freedom of speech, and legal agreements that come over any “Blater law” support it as well.
Posted from
Germany -
You Really need to see this one!
Kanoute was not Fines based on Sevilla contract right?but based on FiFa regulations and now the FiFA nomini for presidence and the President of the Asian Football Confederation (AFC) Mohammad Bin Hammam Support Hammas openly and ”
ASKING PLAYERS in the 19th Gulf Cup to show their support to the Palestinians in their own way. ”So?
http://www.gulfnews.com/sport/Football/10272538.html
If that change nothing in opinions then nothing will!
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Germany -
Ramzi, just to kind of bring this discussion to a close I want to just touch on a few points.
Mr. Mohammad Bin Hammam should NOT be saying these things as the president of a region who are not entirely Muslim. Obviously as an Arab Muslim he would make these comments because let’s not forget that the Israeli-Palestinian conflict has become a religious issue. Just because he said it, it does not justify anything, in fact, I think he is abusing his power more than Kanouté did. However I can see how it in a way is not a big deal because he is addressing the gulf states, whom all are which Muslim and therefore will most likely choose the side of Palestine.
Like I have previously said numerous times, it is a very complicated issue indeed, it is almost like this: You either violate terms of the Geneva convention or terms of the RFEF and FIFA or Sevilla, Kanouté’s contract holder. For this situation to be dealt with properly I think there would probably have to be about 3 or 4 major organizations to go through and somehow they would have to come to a consensus on the issue.
Like the RFEF statement read, it is basically to prevent other players with a lack of discipline taking advantage of a situation like this in the future.
Posted from
United States -
anthony, just want to point out that the palestinian-israeli conflict is not a religious issue-in some aspects it is-but mainly its about the palestinian struggle under occupation and the fight for freedom and basic human rights..gaza has a christian minority, arabs dont equal muslims, remember that
Posted from
Germany -
I don’t see why this is such a big issue. There was a rule prior to what Kanoute did. He broke that rule, and in turn received a punishment thought due by the governing body. I think Kanoute or any other player can do whatever he wants as long as he recognizes that there will be some form of punishment attached. That’s what you get for being a free individual. Just recognize the consequences, and accept them when they are presented. Personally I thought it was courageous what he did, but you can’t complain about the response of the league.
Posted from
United States -
Nada, I do realize this, before 1947 there was no major tension between Muslims and Jews, it was only because Israel was created that this tension has since developed.
Also, I’d beg to differ. I have many friends who are Egyptian Coptic Orthodox but don’t consider themselves Arabs, they consider themselves Egyptian. Arabs are Muslim. But anyway this is besides the point, I don’t discriminate against religious groups and that is not the issue here, although I guess it is sort of indirectly.
I from a neutral standpoint do not support either group and blame them both equally for the struggle. If you want to e-mail me to discuss the actual issue itself feel free at emsc25@gmail.com as I don’t want to lose sight of the football discussion on this post.
Posted from
Canada -
Agree Tony, you explained it simplistically but that’s the point I’ve been trying to get across all along. I never said I don’t support what Kanouté did, I just said it’s not right considering the environment he was in. He must respect the rules that apply to him, end of.
Posted from
Canada -
Actually I was also trying my best not to make it shift to politics or anything beside the key topic(is it legal to fine him?), and thats why I didn’t respond to some “inaccurate info” mentioned during discussions, for example (Arabs = Muslims;) ), definitely not true by any mean Anthony, and your friends know it the same as I do. But its something, again we cannot really discuss here.
I was trying to explain that based on the laws the Fine was not legal, but the political background in the case is was too strong to neglect as I noticed from responds.
I think we gave this issue enough time, and I appreciate the opinions of all contributors, specially that things went in a very respectful manner, and one cannot demand anything more. Because everyone opinion is based on the kind of info he/she receive, so its all appreciated.
Good come back in that game by the way.
Posted from
Germany
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